Transcend Your Story: Zach Bush, MD | Rich Roll Podcast



the cubicle you've you're really living in is your story you're gonna go back into an environment at home where everybody thinks they know who you are because you have very carefully created a cubicle that you show everybody you are a multi-faceted spiritual creature that has innumerable facets and faces to you there is such beauty and complexity in you and yet you choose to show four faces of a cubicle and you have created that story of your life and who you are through training and I would say it's the biggest problem then all of us face in this room is the story that you now tell yourself with what your life has been it's keeping you in a box that's the great Zack Bush back for round number three and this is the ritual podcast the rich roll podcast how are you guys doing what's happening my name is rich roll I am your podcast host this is my show welcome or welcome back quick reminder I'm doing my first live show live podcast extravaganza with special guests to be announced it's all going down Friday September 27th mark your calendar at the historic the gorgeous 1100 seat Wilshire Ebell theatre right here in Los Angeles super super excited about how this is shaping up cannot wait for this evening for more information and tickets they're going fast click the appearances tab on my website retro comm and grab them while they're hot second I implore anyone listening who is struggling with their diet to check out our plant power meal planner super affordably priced at just a dollar 90 a week the price of a cup of coffee you get access to thousands essentially an unlimited supply of nutritious and delicious plant-based recipes grocery lists grocery delivery and access to a team of experienced dietary coaches seven days a week to learn more and sign up visit meals rich roll calm ok he's back people today the man himself one of the most fascinating the most popular guest by a longshot to grace this platform Zack Bush MD returns for round 3 of the podcast and I gotta say this one is a mind-blower for those newer to the show Zack is many things he is the founder and director of M clinic integrative health center in Virginia and I know he hates when people say this but it is true he is one of the few triple board-certified physicians in America with expertise and internal medicine endocrinology and metabolism and hospice palliative care in addition to his work in functional medicine longevity autism gut health cancer the list goes on and on he is an avid environmentalist and activist involved in a multitude of projects that focus on everything from ecology soil health regenerative agriculture farmer well-being and spirituality along those lines I implore all of you to check out his documentary series it's called farmers footprint and it takes a look at the impact of glyphosate on human and environmental health which is something we talked about in our previous episodes and it's done through the lens of farmers and their communities you can view that on Zach's website Zach Bush MD comm or at farmers footprint dot us and I'll put links to those sites in the show notes I've said it before but I think it's worth repeating in my opinion zach is a master healer he is a master consciousness a gift to humanity and somebody I'm very proud to call friend after Zach's previous appearances on the show episodes 353 which was back in March of 2018 and episode 414 from January of this year to the most impactful and and moving conversations of my life we invited Zach and his wife Jen Perl Bush to join us on our recent retreat in Italy so today's conversation which I think you'll find goes in directions quite different from our previous conversations is a product of that experience and it's all coming up after these messages of support from the sponsors that make this show possible the first of which is from my friends at prints on wood it's summer which means weddings birthdays anniversaries what else family reunions all that kind of stuff right and it's really hard to find a cool unique memorable and meaningful gift which is why prints on wood is so freakin cool because a beautiful photo printed directly onto a gorgeous piece of wood that's a pretty dang hard thing to beat several months ago out of the blue I might add these guys have prints on wood sent Julie and I some photos of our family and we absolutely love them the prints are a total work of art each one comes ready to hang right the box we have them displayed throughout our hallway and whenever guests come over someone always comments on how gorgeous and unique they are prints on wood are great for more than just gifts they're a meaningful way for you to document your own journey like that epic marathon finish or completing an Ironman or your beautiful Big Sur bike ride with friends I mean what's the point of taking all of these amazing photos if they just live on your phone and you never display or share them not only are their products impressive prints on wood also 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they support Zach and farmers footprint they were physically present for the conversation that you're about to hear so the next time you're looking for a unique super cool meaningful and environmentally sustainable gift that gives back I mean what else checks all those boxes check out prints on wood right now my listeners can receive an incredible 30 percent off their first order from prints on wood when you go to prints on wood calm and enter the code rich roll that check out that's prints on wood calm code rich roll at checkout to get 30% off your first today's episode is also brought to you by design crowd while we're on the topic of beautiful visual designs how old is your business logo does your website need a graphic makeover if so design crowd can really help sort you out think of design crowd like this digital hub that connects entrepreneurs startups small businesses solopreneurs with designers from around the world so whether you want a new business card and infographic or 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obsession with the pursuit of comfort the stories we craft that form our identity and and more often than not hold us hostage and many other subjects including some shared experiences from a group holotropic breathing experience that Julie had taken the group through prior to the session which I think you guys are going to find fascinating like the recent Jemma Newman episode this was recorded live from our event in Italy thus audio-only no youtube version of this and it closes with Zach leading this amazing meditation and I should say that we edited out or truncated some of the long pregnant pauses or extended moments of silence during that meditation simply for the sake of you guys the listeners as a final note I wanted to add that our retreat errs the people that attended our Italy experience on their own accord have collectively raised and donated 81 thousand dollars for Zach's farmers footprint organization and docu-series which is just incredible so immense gratitude thank you to all who attended and contributed if Zach's message moves you to get involved you can learn more and donate yourself at farmers footprint dot us okay this is a deep one again perhaps a little bit different from that which you've come to expect from dr. Zach but I think something tells me you're gonna dig it I certainly did so let's get into it this is me and dr. Zach Bush I fall in love with all you this week he's been awesome it's so beautiful every single one of you that I've had time to sit and talk with just blow my mind you're just beautiful talented extraordinary human beings that all walked into this week ready to fucking change everything and that's unusual and I'm amazed by that I'm just amazed as I was just talking rich as we were sitting here beforehand of like I have talked to people all over the world and all this but it's unusual to come into an environment where for 40-plus people are here to change everything that it takes to be a better you and it's really an honor to be here and I just have extraordinary gratitude to Julianne rich for including Jen and I in this week it's a powerful opportunity for us to be human to show who we are and be vulnerable as well as learn from the depth that's in this room the things that you guys experienced during your breathing the holotropic breathing is humbling to be witnessed that not enough humans get to see other humans become Buffalo that's freaking unique and it's beautiful and I pulled the whale card and that was an interesting journey just in reading that that card and so these animals are one of my deepest passions as the animals on earth and the devastating effects we've had on them in the last few decades is almost unspeakable and I'm just so grateful that we can embody that and become perhaps part of a higher consciousness where these animals are not only respected on earth but they become part of us and we become part of them and you guys have embodied that really well this is some of you more than others well I think we can all agree that we're very blessed to have you and Jen in our presence it's been a gift to just have you here and to kind of make today Zach Busch Day how many of you here heard one of the two podcast episodes that that Zach and I did together yeah almost everybody it's it's a it's a joke in our house the regularity with which I get feedback like just months and months you know after like I think yesterday somebody you know sent a message about it so it's crazy how much your message has connected with this audience and it's really cool man so I want to continue that conversation what was interesting about what you just said about pulling the whale card I don't know if you know this but like two days ago a giant well I think was a sperm whale washed on shore in Italy in Italy and they discovered about 88 pounds of plastic and it's good and I think that kind of perfectly in capture you know it's like it's interesting that you pulled the whale card you know with that because it speaks to so much of what you're about wow that's a little overwhelming yeah well yeah that's very pertinent to it and we would like to talk about hey thanks though well we let when we last left off the second podcast that we did kind of ended with this epic monologue that you blessed all of us with which really kind of pivoted on this theme of the cycles of life and rethinking you know what death means and how that impacts how we live our lives and I thought maybe you could expound a little bit on that since it was so impactful for so many people yeah and that's that monologue came from you really I mean I do want to point that out that much like the energy that you guys have accomplished this week what you guys have accomplished in yourself transformations as we have come out of the space that that rich and Julie have chosen to hold for all of us to be transformative in and that's why your podcast has become a worldwide bests is because you holding extraordinary spaces for people to to find things in themselves that they didn't know was ready to be spoken and so you gave me an avenue and by the time somebody sits with you for 90 minutes they don't know how they got to where they're at that's for sure and so that was a real you know a tribute to what you do really more than myself but that that moment I think is worth as a wonderful starting point is the monologue was based on my experience in the ICU of watching patients die and then be resuscitated and give report as to what they just experienced and that came around to this single line which was that what they experienced the very first thing they said in their experience wasn't about I saw the white light or I saw Jesus or I saw this or that Minaya accepted for the first time in my life and in all of the sessions that I've been in individually with many of you this week this becomes a theme for each of us as we don't feel seen we feel no matter how much we do or produce we feel unseen and therefore unrecognized and therefore unaccepted and we go through all kinds of ridiculous social machinations to try to reconnect and to get some sort of affirmation from each other that we are seeing or respected or loved and it's ethereal and it's a chasing after the wind because ultimately the human mind is no more capable of seeing you each for who you are than it is figuring anything out and the human mind is a very weak agent of conception and very weak agent of analysis because it works in such a black and white physical plane when in fact you know much of I think many people that you work with on your podcast rich are coming to that podcast out of having reached flow state somehow and so our athletes are phenomenal at demonstrating what flow state looks like and that's what you I'm sure got into in you're chasing ultra there is that you're you moved from a state of disconnect I suspect and at forty nine or whenever it was that you were in that moment of crisis and that transformation I guess I'd turn it back on you for a moment and just ask what if in the lens of a my scene where were you add when as a lawyer and in that and not necessarily just seen by the world but seen by yourself like what aspects of yourself could you see clearly at that point in your life and woman what was hidden yeah it's a great question I mean certainly I didn't feel that I was being seen I was unable to truly see myself other than glimpses of the possibility of what I knew you know I could be I guess but without giving myself permission to inhabit that you know so I felt strongly that I was living the wrong life I didn't have clarity on what the correct life for me would be and I definitely had a powerful sense of not only being not seen but not being able to see myself and I had to you know create painful moments for myself and or to compel me to confront certain things about how I was living in order to you know force me to work through it in hindsight do you think there was parts of you could see some clearly that could see clearly could see clearly of yourself was there parts of your character sigh yeah but I think it was clouded by fear you know oh interesting which made it murky it was too scary to really look at that but you know Julie was incredibly helpful as a support system in helping me you know have the courage in the fortitude to be able to not only begin to expand that aperture but do the work required to walk towards it I think that is one of the most profound statements that we can all hear is that even the parts of us that we can see clearly are clouded by fear which is so true I think we are so afraid of ourselves which is so bizarre that we've been set in fear of ourselves and you know it brings I can't remember who the famous quotes were that have been around this subject but you know you you hear the the the theme of the thing that you should fear the most is your own power you know because you're not connecting to it and that's the fearful part is what are you doing disconnected from your power and do you have a sense where that fear was coming from what was the origin of fear and all that or was it too vague to even pinpoint yeah that's a great question I don't know that I can identify the locus of that other than to say that perhaps it had something to do with with the power being located in a place that was so far askance of my sense of what was socially acceptable for somebody who had had my experience that the fear had to do with stepping outside of what I knew even as dysfunctional as it was to try something completely outside of my comfort zone on an experience that's spot on and I think we can all relate to that in different ways and that it's we would rather stay uncomfortable in the knowing miss then jump into the unknown yeah there's a there's a sort of common refrain in recovery circles which goes something along the lines of when the pain of your current situation exceeds the fear of the unknown and that's when you change right so that's that thing where we're you know the pain that you create for yourself can actually be the catalyst for the change that you seek not that pain is necessary for that transformation but it can be a useful mechanism for it and so it's not always to be avoided but rather to be understood and leveraged and I think the pain is perhaps necessary on some level for change and transformation and this is what I get terrified as a physician of and I saw it in spades in the hospice world which is our dependence and overuse of art narcotics and so the opiate and you know stuff and everything else that we're we're on this opiate explosion is dulling pain yeah it's a barrier to confronting the pain that can be that transformative vehicle and what if we did that at the end of life to everybody so you couldn't make your ultimate transformation and that terrifies me about our current hospice movement which is based on pain control what a ludicrous goal ultimately for a species to Dahl the the exquisitely developed sensory processing that would suggest pain and is interesting that we can have a sensory experience of pain from emotional stress yeah it doesn't have to be biologic whatsoever and the Chinese in their 4,000 years of wisdom and the medicine there I've done a very good job of showing us where pain shows up biologically as always has a an emotional spiritual underpinning so to play devil's advocate a little bit as compassionate beings we don't want to see the people that we love suffering and if somebody is in that place nearing the end of their life what is the you know appropriate compassionate response that doesn't involve overly medicating it's pretty beautiful that's a great question obviously and critical and the answer is touch and human touch is has an extremely powerful way to reduce pain and in the same rate at which we've started to overuse narcotics and and and the whole addiction you know process here we've stopped touching our patients and we've stopped touching our loved ones who are dying somewhat out of just an untrained of what that touching looks like from family members Cormac McCarthy's one of my favorite authors out there in modern writers out there and he's so brutal with his simple descriptions of a scene and he loves the topic of brutal death and pain and you know horrific scenes that he paints and his most benign book got got the most accolades which was the all the pretty horses but blood meridian is worth a read an incredible book that one just like is brutal in its depiction of human violence and what you see depict it off and and and even I think the beginning of all the pretty horses is this stark scene of somebody just died and they're their coffin is in the home for days and that was normal back then you know you know just even at the beginning of the nineteen 1900s it was death happened in the home and the family was intimately involved with that there was a process of picking up the body and wrapping it up and you know it wasn't a sterile process there was nobody that came swooping in to rush that off to the corner and you know all of this and so there was an experience with death and not just on the human plane which you also see in Cormac McCarthy's work is the brutal you know death that was happening around them on the farm you know there's horses dying you know animals you know falling into traumatic end points and and death on all kinds of levels we were intimately involved with that for all of history and perhaps most of all in war and one of the things that terrifies me right now is that we haven't as Americans been immersed in war in a long time and that's it let's just pause on that for a minute because that's a that's a gnarly thing to say right I think it is normally I think I'm afraid that that history repeats itself when we don't pay attention to history and I'm not the only person afraid of that obviously it's been said by a lot smarter people than me but if we look at World War two as an obvious house spring of World War one which was an obvious house springing of some of the wars that were happening in Europe at the end of the 1800s we start to see that there was again a familiarity with brutal brutal violence with war on their soils as Americans we just can't even fathom World War one we lost 60,000 some soldiers and world in Vietnam over a 25 year period and so if you imagine that and then to keep in mind that that had to be done at nearly face-to-face levels of combat where men were within 10 to 30 yards and cutting each other up with machine-gun fire razor wire explosives literally body parts raining down on each other and being covered in each other's blood and feces and living in each other species and the trench warfare that on four years in the same trenches you all have not experienced pain you have an experience suffering you have an experience to the extremity of what the human mindset and body is capable of receiving and witnessing and perpetrating yeah to you know say one thing about what you just said there are interesting parallels between warfare and this relationship with death that we have in the sense that what was once tactile and personal in the Cormac McCarthy sense has become white washed and sanitized so warfare is no longer you know hand-to-hand combat in the trench like World War one it's you know rose it's a shot from a drone or it's cyber warfare from 3,000 miles away that moves you know economies and impacts lives a little bit more indirectly and death has been removed from our visual and emotional field and put behind closed walls because we're so afraid to look at it because it would force us to look at ourselves so what do we take from this shift in how we manage these two things in terms of how to inform how to live our lives better that's thank you for really knowing I'm gonna take it back to that war just for a second just so we can loop that back so I want I want you to realize that those men after two million people dead we're still marching into that warfare knowing exactly what they were and that they were gonna die and they wrote some of the most heart-rending stories are letters back to their loved ones you know in preparation for their death and yet at no point was there fear in there and so how is it that a hundred years later were sitting here and what we're afraid of is ourselves we're afraid as two men sitting on a couch together the our highest fear is that we don't know ourselves and that we don't know why we're here and that we might not be doing enough and that we don't really know how to connect to the people that we love and where and where did we how do we get there you know it's the point where we didn't we we lost the the fear of death historically we could we could divorce from that and then we lose the experience of real pain through this pursuit of a comfort lifestyle ultimately which has been this you know hundreds of year march towards that but obviously in the last 50 years there's never been a faster march towards such a massive portion of humanity living in comfort you know only to experience higher pain and it's interesting that our chronic pain rates accelerate as our lifestyles appear to get more comfortable yeah that's the great irony right that that that comfort and luxury is actually creating the pain that we then need to medicate ourselves against and so that's where I think we have to reevaluate our concept of pain is pain actually a bad thing is it something that we need to avoid and I would argue that not at all because in an endocrine system so as an endocrinologist where it's my favorite field of medicine and that's why I went into it in the sense that everything is a feedback loop and so if you have if you eat and sugar your insulin goes up if your insulin goes up glucose goes into the cell when your blood sugar drops insulin goes back down and so there's a feedback loop that achieves all of that there's this constant communication so parathyroid hormone goes up to release calcium from the bone and then it drops down to get calcium back into the bone and so you have this constant regenerative cycling of tissue of genes of proteins of all of the mechanics of cellular health are always in transition they're always in this given exchange there's push and pull give and take kind of communication and our whole neurologic systems are loaded with pain receptors and we have this very natural mechanism that releases opioids from our own cells and we call them endorphins and we call them a lot of different little molecular terms but these little molecules all have relationship to morphine the structure of morphine is very similar to endorphin itself and those endorphins that you achieve when you're running are hitting all of those pain receptors and so it's very likely that you wake up with more back pain and then you will have an hour into running and so you'll hit that threshold where the first and half hours is misery when you're trying to get moving and then suddenly you hit that threshold where the pain just goes away I'd be curious eating to when you were running all those those ultra marathons and and Hawaii what was that journey like I mean you did it over and over again to yourself like there must have been so much pain that week yeah but it's a it's a different I mean there are different kinds of pain – you know psychic pain emotional pain you know the physical pain and then within the physical is it acute or is it you know McHale abrade I sucked it so I don't know I don't know like I don't know how to answer that other than to say a – your first point yeah like I have some like back stuff now and I'm a little creaky at 52 and I get out of bed in the morning I'm like I'm not moving so fluidly but yeah half an hour into the run that's like all the pain goes away you know basically that's the best that I feel like you know all day when that's happening and I think you know one's relationship to pain is similar to one's relationship to time in that it's malleable and flexible depending upon your experience right so your exposure to it allows you to acclimate to it and develop a new and different relationship to it that that in my experience allows you to kind of overcome the fear around it like once you embrace it rather than run away from it you realize that it can be this this crucible for for growth and progress and by progress I mean personal growth things of that nature which would you rather have you just letting out a bunch of different types of pain which would I rather have physical but common psychological pain well I mean you know physical pain is is very like binary you know I think there was some study I stumbled across some article about a study that's that you know the psychic and emotional pain that we have is you know is is we underestimate it it's actually just as as impactful and profound as the physical pain but we don't think about the those two things in the same way nor do we treat them in the same way so I would I think you're exactly right and in in my personal experience but definitely my experience as a physician I see the psychic pain having farm longer ramifications and more detrimental ramifications to function than physical pain physical pain is actually a neurologic experience where you have a neuron that's sensing a stimulus and it's sending a signal to your brain this is gonna that's then gonna send the experience of pain to your your sensory you know processing center whereas emotional pain is so vague you know psychic pain is so vague and it's trigger that your body can't prepare the same way you don't have the same warning systems you don't have the same coping mechanisms and so it's this insidious thing that creeps in and suddenly you're in you had an incredible term the other day I think was the crucible of suffering and we can find ourselves in these moments of for you it was a couple nights miss sleep and you find yourself in the crucible suffering yeah we've all missed those nights of sleep and we all sensed that it's so interesting how vulnerable the human brain is right like we are all on the brink of insanity you missed three nights of sleep and you get a little alcohol on top of that and you have a little bit of you know emotional stressor that you don't understand where it came from and all that and pretty soon you're you're pretty much psychotic that's the reassuring part of being and so just just know you're not alone in that that's I guess where I meet you there we are so vulnerable and I see this most and you know in my journey with my psych patients this woman that has been with me the longest now have been her doctor for almost 20 years and she came to me she was on 35 medications and 16 of those were essentially acting drugs her brain yeah mood mood stabilizers anti-spasmodics you know she was on every freaking drug class that we have and usually two again and for most of those two or three from a single drug class and so she had so much redundancy in her drugs and she spent you know from age like 16 on to about you know when I met her she was about 46 so she spent you know 30 years in psych wards in and out of Psych hospitals and lived more time in psych wards than she did outside of them and then was in you know yeah section 8 housing and all this kind of you know disability and all that between that was 2002 that I picked her up I guess so game 2002 and by 2012 10 years later I had her down to two medications and she hadn't been in the psych ward in two and a half years over the last eight years she's popped into psych wards twice but there's only because she was homeless in those moments and she knew how she could work the system to to get a get a bed under her and so she basically faked neuroses and got herself into psych wards twice since then and she's not psychotic she's not a psychotic person but on those psych wards she she was a terror like she's a relatively short woman but you know quite overweight from all the drugs that she'd been on all of them were causing obesity shutting down her metabolism but she had been famous for blowing through armored doors she could she could run herself through armored doors and psych units and so she had this like preternatural strength in her psychosis that she could she was scary violent she's one of the most gentle people I know and she's one of the most intuitive people and I call her my Oracle now because she'll call me up you know it would be like dr. Porsche something is about to happen to you next week that's gonna be really interesting and great in this way and sure enough next week something happens she's very tied into the spiritual realm she can see things that we can't see and so when she becomes vulnerable when she becomes weakened she looks floridly psychotic in a different way than you and I would because she's closer to this veil and that we really that is harder to approach for for people with more biologic faculties in place perhaps and so I point to her as an example of this this threshold of is pain good as pain bad because basically she was on 32 drugs to dull her experience of depression and anxiety to just a fog and she was kept in a fog for 30 years and suffered despite all of the fog and in the end she just wanted to be seen and so what I ended up you know being able to do as a human being was just really listened to her story over and over again and she had to tell it to me until I was so tired of hearing her story and it took me a long time to find out that her story ultimately was her biggest problem that and I would say it's the biggest problem that all of us face in this room is the story that you now tell yourself of what your life has been it's keeping you in a box so her story is obvious to look at and while her box was she's a psych patient and she is there once I had listened to her story enough times as to how she got herself there by 16 into psychosis turns out in that situation it was her she her father runs a service station over in the Stan area and in the beautiful chandelier Virginia and by the time she was 12 years old he he was hat allowing his employees to give him some money so that they could rape his daughter behind the service station and this happened for you know a decade of her life and in and out of psych ward she should come back and be raped again and her father was perpetrating you know this situation around her and so you hear that story and you're like well that's horrific and that's you know what psyche could possibly handle that and the answer is she could have handled it because she does now she handles that story without any drugs because it got hurt and she was able to process that enough times and realize that it wasn't her she was much bigger entity than that story for a moment in this biologic body she had been raped many times her father was somebody she could not trust but she's much bigger than that she's a spiritual being and she got to this largely through her own you know kind of Christian mindset faith and you know some interesting people came into her life to kind of I think you know infuse this with you know her knowledge of finding that bigger self but she now sees herself as this this energetic entity this this woman and the bigger sense of the word she's a nurturing creative force on the planet that can is tied into all of the history of God and spirituality and humanity and it's as as long as she can stay grounded in that then the the short traumas that happened in her life here don't don't hurt her it doesn't cause pain yeah I mean what it that's an amazing story I mean what I hear and that is is just the tremendous resilience that that we all have and that we're born you know capable and we have everything that we need to not only survive but you know whether whatever life throws at us but we're we've developed an insulated culture in which we dis empower people by treating them as if they're powerless or incapable of handling these certain things and it's delicate because you want to give people the support that they need to deal with something as traumatic as that I mean I can't possibly imagine but to say to somebody like okay this is this is like you need to be on all these pills or you need this and that is to tell somebody that they are not capable and it's to strip them of their power right and so what is the long-term implication of that message that you're sending to people and to what extent is this epidemic of people desiring to be seen and not being seen being driven by loneliness and like what Johann Hari would call lost connections like we're just despite you know the internet connecting us all we've never been more separated from each other and and more alone like we're not living you know like this week has been on some level an experiment in in alternative communal living and it feels good I think everybody here would say like we all feel so connected to each other and there's a life force and a vitality that comes with that that we don't get to experience in our daily lives when we go back and we all immerse ourselves in our various you know forms of cubicles in which we all live right so how can we restructure this to create you know to recapture those connections to see each other to allow ourselves to be seen and communally to support each other so that we can feel empowered and be empowered and provide empowerment to others so how can we solve all the problems yeah yeah that's that's super good I I love those questions it's like okay succinctly let's yeah in some ways I think that the fastest way to get there is let go of your story the reason why you guys have had such a transformational events this week is because nobody here really knew your story and there wasn't time for us to all learn each other's stories instead we chose to meet each other right where each of us without without any preconceived notions of who you all are or what faculties or experiences or accomplishments you've had and just say I'm human sweet I am too like let's like just do this thing let's just start breathing and see where this goes and suddenly people are turning into other animals and and you feel vulnerable enough to share that and you express you know the horrific things that's happened in your life that would have you know led to being an animal and embodying that experience and so how can we do that how can we create a society where we don't fall back into our cubicles the cubicle you've you're really living in is your story you're gonna go back into an environment at home where everybody thinks they know who you are because you have very carefully created a cubicle that you show everybody and you want them you get frustrated when they can't see all four sides of your cubicle be like what you don't even know me like you are a multiple multifaceted spiritual creature that has innumerable facets and faces to you there is such beauty and complexity in you and yet you choose to show four faces of a cubicle and you have created that story of your life and who you are through training we do this with Seavey's and you know the curriculum vitae and the resume and all this stuff like we build this long story of what we've done in our life isn't it ridiculous that I could look at a resume and then suppose that I know anything about this human being that's applying for a job isn't that ridiculous that you would actually put something up on a dating website that you would think would show some face of who you are isn't it ridiculous that your partner in life who knows you better than emails can't see you because you won't let them that's weird what are we doing what we're doing is acting out of fear we're afraid to let down those four walls because we're afraid there's nothing inside or perhaps we're afraid that that what would be discovered inside what is tantamount to being unlovable yes and if there was something inside we would have to be lovable right and so I think it's this sense of hollowness yeah and so is it possible that you're unlovable and for me I had to you know face this very brutally and my you know well compared to World War one not at all brutally but again sometimes that psychic pain can be greater than them any physical threat had a great marriage I thought I was married for 18 years together 20 years I met this woman when I was pretty young and had two amazing kids and never really had a fight in 20 years no conflict in the marriage but we the adversity that we dealt with as a couple was really around extended family so her whole family including herself were suffered from major depression over their lifetimes many many times and a couple of her siblings tried to commit suicide one of them and protect them many many times so we rehabbed our siblings in our home for years at a time and so those were the challenges that came up in those and so from my rational brain I was like I've got a great marriage it's amazing like no conflict we can support other people you know all this and but there was this huge loneliness developing in both of our lives because we were showing each other we were building stories we were building these complicated long stories of who we were becoming and we we could know each other less and less over time and I did that to myself I created a story that was so complicated and I had to do with being a doctor ultimately and yes she knew me before I was a doctor and watch me through that journey and you know a whole stupid thing that everybody ever always write introduces me as this you know parts of my story which is going triple what certain I hear that so many times I'm like if I ever hear a triple board-certified you know I'm gonna kill somebody like I just so sick of hearing that that sentence and I've asked my employees to stop sending out that bio just like say just Zak he's kind of a confused guy he's here to talk to you you know just like send out something that's a little closer to mark you know yeah just like lost he's just like wandering around you just ran into you know he couldn't find an end point so he's still wandering is something more realistic you know then then making it sound like a bunch of achievements and and so I built all these stories this long story and I was looking for self-worth in pouring out service and being an ultimate service machine and I was pretty friggin good at it and at the cost of complete alienation from my wife and she didn't there's no way she could have known me by the end of that 20-year journey and she had respect for me and she wasn't angry at me but she was like it was nothing to touch and that you know that was a number of years ago now obviously and the result that my life was largely that I couldn't touch anybody either and so I had become untouchable because of the complexity of my story and I couldn't touch anybody because of the complexity of my story I was so walled off in my cubicle of my story and you mentioned you know this identity of resilience in this woman like you know what a resilient personality must have survived that and I've come to see that that identity of resilience be the most destructive self identity that somebody can have because if your self identity becomes I am resilient what you need to prove that your identity you need difficulty you need pain suffering difficulty trauma so that you can be resilient again you will keep creating trauma in your life if your identity is resilience you will never become successful if your identity is resilience because you would have to lose your self identity to find ease and success another one that I see all the time is the idea of Mia fix it and I think that's where I fall into I can fix anything and say the Savior I'm I can literally fix anything if you have a flat tire no problem I worked for a tire company he'll fix your tire refrigerators down no problem I can fix your refrigerator the car goes out no problem I did the car mechanics for years I didn't go fix your alternator no problem you need a house built no problem I have a general contractor's license I'll build you a house you know yeah I am a freaking pathetic fixer like to the nth degree fixer and if your identity is a fixer what do you need in your life everyday broken broken you need a lot of shit broken and if there's nothing broken you'll probably fly off the handle and break something yeah are you going to an existential crisis now you're an identity crisis like I'm useless to the world fucking useless I haven't done anything in a day I haven't fixed the damn thing today and so this is how our story becomes an identity that's usually can be boiled down to one word and each of you that I've met with this week have a one word identity that we can find pretty quickly and be like do you really want to be that no I hate that I hate fucking fixing things every day and in fact that's what I bitch at most of all isn't my only learn a wonderful wife everybody wants me to fix shit I know you want to fix shit you're like don't put you're projecting yourself on other people like other people don't they just they just mentioned something and you suddenly make that into something you need to go fix they were just reporting status that they weren't telling you it wasn't a to-do list they were they were activating so how do we transcend these one word identity constructs that we create for ourselves it's it's the hardest thing we can do and and yet it is done instantaneously it's a decision that can be had which says are you willing to let go of everything you think you are are you willing to actually become nothing for a moment this is where where pain can be powerful because short of pain who's gonna say yes to that exactly exactly and nowhere more definitely do we need that at the end of life probably you know if we haven't found self yet we need to find it in those last couple minutes of life so that we can have closure on this biologic journey that we did in this body and have a rise in consciousness and I get increasingly excited about our clinic because we do you know biology anymore and it frustrates the hell out a lot of my people are coming in clinic the first time a patient comes in with cancer and they know that I've got an outside box purge cancer and all this and they want me to freaking fix their cancer and we will never talk about their cancer and they keep trying to bring it back together and we talk about something else because the cancer is not the problem the cancer is a symptom downstream of this disconnect ultimately from themselves and the psychic trauma that's been held in their body from not being themselves has created massive disconnect at the physiology level and there's profound loneliness happening down at the cellular level to achieve a cancer cell I can't remember if we've talked about this before or not but but a cancer cell is has been sliced off from all communication and once it loses communication with from the greater organism it it hasn't lost one thing which is a drive for life and so it's very fascinating that at the cell level one of your skin cells has a driver for life one skin cell independently with nothing else around it still has a drive for life it's gonna try to make something bigger than itself and so it becomes poorly differentiated meaning that it doesn't make skin anymore instead it makes what we would call a tumor it's creating a pluripotent or more multi-dimensional cell and it starts to proliferate because it can't repair itself the hallmark of a cancer cell is a lonely cell that can't repair itself and so it's only choice in its highest state of damages to proliferate but what's fascinating about that is that the malignancy is triggered by the disconnection from the community and the network right and this is something that that operates at the micro level but is also you know ultimately very true at the at the most macro level of how we live I mean we can think of that guy who climbed up the you know the hotel there to shoot all those people in Las Vegas right it's like he's like he is a cancer dancer so who is activated in a malignant way through disconnection and he's out to try to find self-identity through destruction of the environment and I think that's why we create war I think nations go to war trying to find self-identity because they've lost their core and so they go kill other things to try to find some relevance or some sense of power because they lost it and this is what terrifies me that we haven't had a war on our soil in over a hundred years with a civil war being our last major one is that we're gonna do that again to find ourselves yeah well one of the things that's that's interesting about your work is is that the path forward involves creating connection but even more so it's about discovering the connection that's already there like in this this idea of the the quorum sensing that you're talking about like we are already more connected than we're consciously aware of and developing a means of kind of understanding on an intuitive and unconscious as well as conscious level the connection that we all share is a way of overriding that sense of disconnection that is creating all of these problems it's perfect transition yeah so quorum sensing is a description of a hyper intelligence in my in my reading of it so bacteria and fungi can create massive communities which suddenly take on a ultra intelligence that's far beyond the capacity of any individual within the community and so in in the fungal world we can see chemical responses to a nutrient load for example so if you you've deposit a bunch of fertilizer on one corner of a farm the entire mycelial colony starts to sense an imbalance in the ecosystem across many acres and you go and biopsy the soil on the other side of the farm a few weeks later and you find that the nutrients you just dumped in here have suddenly appeared over here and so there's a intelligent distribution of resources through very complicated very distant you know systems and so that's one way in which we watch quorum sensing happen but a bigger one can be seen as we kind of keep moving up the biologic chain and a good example is trees and so if you let cattle into a new paddock that they've never been in they all go for the trees first we think of them as as as grass eaters but they always shoot for the trees first and so they'll go for the trees and though of the lower leaves off the trees and suddenly the trees were sensing the the damage being done we'll wait for a period of time until it reaches a point where I realized that that's there gonna be a detriment of detrimental effect which interesting that there's a rate of loss that's not judged for mammals probably good for it so the tree is getting pruned by the cow and it recognizes that as being beneficial to encourage more crown growth and more growth up top and then it suddenly senses okay that's enough and it puts out a chemical to make the leaves bitter and the cows will immediately stop eating the rest of the leaves so they then move on to the grass the giraffes do this in an african tree systems as well and so the giraffes willkommen in a new space and start eating and they'll eat an entire tree and less and of course there's they're sensing happening and the tree suddenly exerts this this new chemical shift and it gets bitter and that but interestingly they've now recognized that an entire grove of trees will sense that one trees responds and the entire grove will go bitter simultaneously and so there's intelligent communication happening between trees that cover you know large you know square mile kind of spaces and so there's this hyper intelligence that happens when organisms start to cooperatively recognize themselves of being able to achieve a bigger network of sensing communication and ultimately processing and information processing and therefore intelligence and we see this repeated in nature everywhere we look from the hive mind and the way that these you know colonize and operate from the migration of birds and and we kind of tend to look at it and say wow wouldn't it be cool if like humans could communicate like that like the Borg in Star Trek yeah and that's the dark version of that I suppose but but but you know to what extent is is the human organism able to communicate in a more networked fashion like this yeah so before I get to human human actually it just came to me that there's something maybe even helped me create this action that before two together I had a moment and when I was snorkeling off the coast of Tulum Mexico many years ago now but I was in this was in my alone face I had decided as gonna become a monk and so my first couple conversations with with Jenn was how I was a monk and I was never gonna being another relationship and all this and so she apparently saw through all of that bullshit story that I was creating for myself and this is cubicle himself had a new identity of I'm a monk and and so but I was in my monk mode and as um feeling disconnected and wanting connect in my life and where I often feel most connected is floating in the ocean alone over coral reef and and just watching this civilization below me that I I don't really feel any belonging to but I just watch it and all of its beautiful connectivity and I'm fascinated by the tiniest things in coral reefs like the big fish are cool but I'm just fascinated by little hairlike structures that wave back and forth and what the hell are those doing and like whoa yeah those things are finding purpose and just being a hair that waves back and forth all day in the ocean it just goes back and forth and back and forth back and forth back and forth and that that little hairlike thing on the coral reef has never woken up with us an identity crisis yeah it's like no this is what I do man I'm in flow I'm like I got the ocean and it's the waves and I can sense what's going on in the other side of the ocean because there's ripples that happen through and can sense that and connected I'm like I'm the sensory system for the entire planet that's 70% water oh my god how beautiful is that to be a sensory fibre for the ocean itself and to know what's happening on the planet and I am coral reef and you get in that state it's like okay this is this is freakin beautiful you start to get yourself in there and so I decided you know there was a day where I didn't have time to get to go travel to one of the reach that I always loved traveling to but I just wanted to get out the waters I just like started swimming out with my snorkel and just going out just there was no expectation of reef because it was just an all sand and it was out there and swam and swam swimming and then I started find you know not really reef per se but chunks a coral and chunks of you know some amazing you know those fern corals that are out there and stuff like that and so sound some cool things and I was like that's nice and I popped my head back looked out and realized I was way further away from the shore than I had ever really been and I got you know a little panic because I'm not like super swimmer dude or anything like that and just had that little moment of like oh my god I hope I can get back like I had so long ways and and so I started back and I'm swimming back and you know quickly got over that little panic attack and it was like okay I just just keep at it and got my head back down in the water and just cruising and suddenly I got surrounded by a massive school of sardines and this went on for 45 minutes that I was in this swarm of sardines and it's more life than you can even really begin to describe I mean this thing must have been a quarter mile in length at least you know this this massive school of fish and interests them as soon as I I saw it coming and I didn't you know at first know what it was it looked like a ship or something like that like it looked like a big solid structure coming to me and look above the water there's nothing there and it's coming at me so fast it wasn't like I'm gonna run away from this thing is like I'm gonna get hit by this thing and we're by the time they were about ten feet away I could start to pick out that they were all these cylinders that was a silver heads of all these fish and then they swarm came around me and they respected my field – I'd say probably almost exactly six inches like they were just completely around me and I was completely engulfed and had very quickly lost orientation whereas you lose sense of up and down because there's no sunlight you're just in silver just flashing silver up down all around and I got so excited I was like they can see me and I could push my hand as fast as I quit out in the water and I couldn't touch a fish you know and there's like a go that and maybe six inches all the way around my arm and it looked and I'd pull my arm back and I couldn't even see a hole like they would close in on that space so fast that my I couldn't sense the speed and so they were this ultimate quorum right there this ultimate organism made of probably hundreds of millions of fish they're all like a few inches long and they covered in young and so they're moving past me pretty quickly over this 45 minute period and then you know as for my thing and some minutes into this I start to get really panicked because I'm I think that I'm starting to become sardine I'm starting to have so much sardine energy around me that I'm like it's a it was exciting for those first few minutes it was like this is I'm having a once-in-a-lifetime moment and you know you all have had those moments really like this will never happen to me again I'm probably the only human experiences right now on this planet and you're nearing that elated says and then pretty soon you're like you know I I don't know what life is gonna be after this moment like nothing's the same after this moment and I would say that many of you this week are in a sardine moment of your starting in a sense an energy field there is an organism that you're starting to plug into you that you've always been craving but your feeling of fear of loss of a identity because nothing's gonna be the same when you go back if it is you missed a big opportunity you need to become sardine here okay you need to become Buffalo here as you have did anybody pick the sardine card yeah and so sardine was such an interesting experience and one of the I didn't even realize this but this is freaking profound it comes right back to where we started which is about you know some minutes into this experience I had become sardine I had become relaxed into that that okay I'm probably still gonna be human on the other side of this I will be changed but I'm not actually sardine yet and so I got past that panic attack and then suddenly there's these explosions of bubbles around me just massive explore bubble explosions and I couldn't figure out what it was for some time and then I happened to have a little clearing in the fish long enough for me to see Pelican feet on the water surface around me and realized that the pelicans were bursting in but their trip there traversed through the water and then back up with a fish in her mouth was so fast that my I wasn't quick enough in that ten thousandth of a second to see it your eye can perceive at about that ten thousandth of a second rate and so by the time I was sensing something all I could see was bubbles and so I couldn't track their trajectory through the water because it was beyond that and that speed at which my eyes are capable of capturing neurologically what I was seeing and as soon as I saw the pelican feet and a split second I figured out what's going on I feel this immediate emotional reaction of my friends were getting eaten like this is terrible that we're having loss and I say and and I went there for just a split second and sardine said back to me like somebody screaming at me no like wrong and I tied back into that energy in there had been and the Latian event in this group of fish they were elated in this moment of pelicans hitting and there was this rise in energy happening in this thing as transformation was happening at a very very high energetic level and so they there was zero empathy for the loss of their brethren and you see that same thing when 1 million men marched in the war there's a loss of empathy for the individual and there's only a sense of there's human suffering and there's human victory and I want to be a part of that and I'm just as willing to be part of the human suffering and loss of life as I am to be part of the victory and that is just the blind and so I think in warfare we can reach the state of non empathic presence and so our challenge now as humans is I believe to reach non and Pathak presence without war what if we can non empathically witness loss of life you mentioned how can we possibly not treat with and with opiates and somebody who's suffering at the end of life because we feel for them well that's where we fucked things up I think is we start having all these emotional responses to this situation which inevitably is selfish because your emotions have nothing to do with that person's journey and you're putting your journey on that person's thing projecting all your crap on that situation of somebody who's in a train and what is that going to do to their energy field it's going to drop their energy and they're gonna suffer more for it and so my nurses on the hospice environment did the best thing in the world which was touch patients and the most powerful ones used Reiki which is an age-old technique for not touching them just with skin but touching them with energy and put raising their vibration and pain goes down immediately immediately and so a non empathic approach to pain and loss of life raises vibration these fish demonstrated this in an incredible way of they realized that there was a cycle of life happening right now and they wanted to be a and they were not afraid of that cycle of life they were they in fact were excited they were thrilled by the opportunity to be engaged in the cycle of life which was death and rebirth that same story takes me to have thought of viktor schauberger if you haven't heard viktor schauberger you got to look this guy up one of the greatest minds of 20th century and probably one of the most under all the geniuses of that century he he was a forester and that's why he didn't get much attention austrian forest or fifth-generation austrian forests are in the same force so imagine the intelligence that would come into a human being that for five generations his dad grandfather grandfather grandfather grandfather had been observing the same section of Austrian Highland forests what intelligence would come from that kind of quorum sensing multi-generational intelligence and when you read viktor schauberger you see what comes out of that this man as a forester had more profound discoveries of human biology than any physician or scientist in that century he discovered that the heart is not a pump for blood he discovered that how fish can sit dead still in a fast running river and not move not be swept downstream have you guys seen that before isn't that the weirdest thing have you even asked yourself why is that happening the fast running stream and the fish is dead still not moving no effort to it but he's not being swept into the current and he figured out that the shape of the fish scales are designed in those river fish to create an a sweep of energy across the scale that creates a negative charge on the backside of that scale that pulls the fish forward and so the fish is creating a magnet that is equal exactly to the speed of the water and so if the water flows faster it pulls forward faster if it slows down it pulls slows down at the exact rate such that it doesn't move and it doesn't need to move a fin to stay in exactly the same velocity as the water that's traveling by it that guy figured that shit out without any devices with anything he figured it out staring at nature and observing nature at this exquisite level and one of the observations he made that ties back to the sardines and where I would love for you and I to get to as human beings as he had long witnessed and wrote about even this phenomenon that in these high mountain lakes of austria he would see an eagle circling a lake and it would go into a tighter and tighter circle in that lake and pull and then he would see a fish following the shadow of the eagle and the eagle would pull it into a tighter and tighter vortex and then right at the center of the lake would grab the fish and take off and so he had this whole amazing theory that he observed of how Eagles go fishing and they create a vortex of energy and pull a fish into the vortex and and then some years later he happened to look down he was high enough and that just the right trajectory where he saw a fish swimming in a giant circle around the outside of a lake he's like that's weird so he sat down and sure enough kept seeing come by and laughs and did this for about thirty minutes before an eagle came and started following the fish and got tighter and tighter tighter and tighter and he said I've seen this dance before and he realized this time that in the last couple split seconds the Eagle never reached inside the water the fish jumped out of the water into the talons of the eagle so he realized all those years he was not observing Eagles fishing he was observing fish jumping to a different plane that's so interesting to me what if we saw death as a heightening of our experience an opportunity to go four dimensional release ourselves of these 3d environments can you imagine the fish that was limited to that lake for its entire existence and then got to soar into the sky for a few seconds to witness what the mountains look like see down at that Lake that it had spent its entire life with and be like oh my god that was the freakin box I've been stuck in how's it a little speck of water down there and these grandiose mountains and oh my god there's lakes all over the place I didn't realize oh my gosh look at the freakin expanses of life around me and that's exactly what my patients come back from the dead with why the hell did you pull me back here you brought me right back into the box and I am in pain and you've stuck a latex tube in every orifice of my body and I don't want to be here and you keep touching me with those goddamn latex gloves I just want to be connected back to universe and connected at a high level to nature you're yearning for that and you'll get there and we're we're running a pretty good rate of pretty damn near 100% death for humankind and so you can get to that expansion and we're cruising there now as a species you know Jemma talked so well yesterday about you know this this you know speed of the loss of life that we're now in I wasn't she wasn't seen beautiful yesterday I just so blessed to listen to you yesterday there there's such hope in somebody finding truth in their life and being willing to blow up their paradigm you're the only freaking crazy doctor and all of that freaking crazy Island of the UK willing to be as crazy as you are that's ridiculous and brave and interesting and you're breaking apart cubicles that people have put you in and you're breaking apart in education that built a box for you to be in and you're blowing that apart and I think that's what makes your whole podcast compelling is you interview people that have had to through often real hardship blow up their paradigm and blow up that cubicle to find themselves larger than what they thought they were before but there's so much beauty in that destruction right and I and I think it does it does relate to these stories that you're talking about with the fish and the ego on the sardines in the sense that we there you know maybe we need to blow up this paradigm or that we've constructed around you know empathy for suffering and the life and death cycle right so it's like from you through your lens and these stories that you've just told the most empathetic thing that we can actually do is to suspend our empathy and the rationale behind that is to broaden the aperture through which we perceive life and death and suffering and growth you know one of the things that Julie talks about a lot is is not depriving people of their divine moment like this this empathy that we have for pain and you know suffering at the end of and of life can easily be applied to how we approach people in their various suffering moments throughout life to suspend empathy is also to respect and empower the person who's going through whatever they're going through so that they can fully embrace what's being presented to them so that they have the facility to undergo that transformation for themselves to blow up their own paradigm about who they are so that they can get to that next place it's hugely important and I guarantee you that each of you who are in a relationship right now are in some ways palliating your partner and you're you're trying to salve their pain and therefore keeping them from transformation and we do this out of altruism but it's a it's a broken model of altruism misguided altruism and so we we show what we think is compassion to one another which in the end is selfishness because we're exercising our moment to redefine our self-identity as a compassionate person or as a giver or as a server and also I mean we're selfishly using that person's pain to buoy up our self identity which is vampiric really it's completely vampiric and you will come to feel this in your life when you get good at recognising these patterns of your own behavior you'll suddenly realize that people are literally vampires on your energy and they're sucking life out of you and you created those you literally like walked up to the vampires like you wanted to suck on this you know it's just like here's my carotid yeah just take the radial artery it's right here you know oh you too I got another one no problem I've got it here you could suck up my ankle you're you are draining yourself intentionally to maintain some belief system about why you're valuable you know don't don't empathically approach the people around you to support your sense of identity it's it's the most awful thing that we could do to each other is to leech on to a moment of pain and suffering so that we can feel better about ourselves and so you need to stop being so abusive to one another in your self professed care for one another we were talking before the podcast and you were telling me about this study among college students solving this puzzle and and how that kind of applies to yeah this super consciousness that we have can you just share that so I think that you probably felt that though but in the description of the sardines for example did you or the coral reef did you have a moment where you felt that extension of intelligence like you suddenly feel like oh yeah I could literally stick my toe in the ocean and if i sat there long enough I could sense everything that's going on on the planet you know there's that level of connectivity and so quorum sensing as we started with there is that philosophy that in the end everything is electrons and everything's electrons interacting with protons and so this is accounts for about point zero zero zero one percent of the space that we live in and so we are 99.999 7% vacuum space and so is everything the planet the microbiome everything is vacuum space and so we have almost nothing solid but what is solid is these little protons that haven't recently been recognized to have the same structure as the black hole that's in the middle of our galaxy and so these black holes are these massive energetic centers of gravity that pull in everything including light energy and kick stuff back out and so Steven Hawkins became known for many great discoveries but one of them was the Hawkins particles again named after him and he recognized that black holes out in our space are putting out all these particles of information in this digital data that's just flowing out of black holes and he yelled for a long time that that was just chaotic information and then more recently a lot of astrophysicists all came to the agreement that know that structured information and through other work in astrophysics they've realized that all the black holes were connected through wormholes and the like and so black holes holes are all connected there's a black hole at the center for pretty much every galaxy out there and so we have billions of galaxies throughout the universe and so we have the billions of black holes they're all connected and that's all fascinating and when you start to think about what would be the structured data coming out of black holes throughout the universe does that start to resemble what we might call the intention of God or the information of a super computer there is a super intelligence that is a process through all of the black holes in the universe and so there's a stream of information of data structured coming out of all the black holes and flowing into the entire universe and from that we see the organization of plasma and matter and planets and solar systems and galaxies and dolts my organisms on those planets and then humans and then we rush down into the cells within your hand and then you look down into your hand you realize okay that's all the Tomic structure and you zip down deeper and it's like yep this is all all made out of these little tiny protons ultimately and so then the same Haramain who's an incredible physicist right now if you haven't seen his stuff you need to look up in the seam and assi am haramain and i think it's a gr r i'm gonna butcher that last name am II I n Haramain and the seams work is showing that the proton is a tiny tiny black hole and functions with all of the physical features of a black hole and what's rushing in and out of the black holes is electrons and the electrons are speeding across environments and exchanging information and what how this manifests then is exchange of information at the atomic level and at the atomic level of these atoms exchanging insider protons which are basically the central processing units of these of a computer and so you got the CPU that's processing all the information coming out of the electron electron reacts with its environment and then it comes back into the proton to tell the proton what it just experienced a proton then just kicks out okay just this is what's my environment and so it now informs all the other electrons that come in and okay this is what the experience is out there and then all the black holes are communicating what all the protons in your body which is billions and billions and billions and billions and billions are all communicating and the electrons are exchanging very quickly and so over this hour and a half or whatever we've been in this room together we've all exchanged almost all of our electrons very quickly you know all of the atoms in all of our cells and all of our molecules exchanging electrons we have this huge cloud of electrons in here that have all exchanged and now transit and transected into the protons and exchanged information the speed at which this happens is proved in these experiments that we were talking about and so they take groups of 30 or 40 students college students and give them a really difficult word word puzzle it's a crossword puzzle and they time how long it takes for this group of students to solve this puzzle together and then as soon as they click the timer okay 45 minutes whatever it was they then wait five minutes and then they start a second group of students across campus on the same word puzzle and every time they've done this the second group finishes a few minutes faster and so even across the distance of a campus electrons are exchanged fast enough that there's a universal knowingness that's developing in the environment and you guys have all witnessed this overtime hey how many of you have grandchildren no grandparents in the room that's mean one grandparent in the room does anybody have you know kids or nieces and nephews under the age of five and so a few more people in the room what is the reaction of that child to a small rectangular box that we would call an iPhone that kid will learn to crawl just so it can get to the iPhone that kid will scream bloody murder on an airplane until mom finally hands over the iPhone she doesn't want to because she doesn't want the kid off screen time doesn't want the kid to be holding a radiation device but eventually mom gives in because the kid is fixated on this freaking little rectangle this is quorum sensing at the greater level now is these children are born into an environment where information technology is in such a high level of experience in the human consciousness right now that the child knows that that's what it must want more than anything else because their parents are spending more time on that little box than anything else it more than any relationship in their lives they will spend more time on that box in a day than they will talk to their own spouse they will spend more time on that box than they will interact for their boss it must be the most important thing our children can sense that and so they don't know why it's the most important thing one year-old has no idea what the Freak the box is all they know is very important and they have a facility in that technology that after decades of using those damn things I can't match a three-year-old is way better on an iPhone than I am because there's this constant electrical exchange of information and experience and so we should take massive pause and asked what is the quorum sensing right now through my contribution what is your daily experience contributing to this higher electrical state of humanity are you touching anybody in a day can we do ourselves a favor right now and can we just hold hold hands just for the next however long this is hold dance that just me and you which will look awkward but isn't it interesting that we don't even do this very often right like it's like the freakin simplest thing in the world like hey I've got a hand getting this opposing thumb it's kind of cool us in the monkeys and we just fix shit instead of touch each other we just fix stuff you guys are all doing maintenance all day long and you're not touching another hand this is the best pain control not only that we go out of our way to avoid this this is very awkward and vulnerable yeah and frightening yeah we both got the black thing too I noticed that when we sat down like we must look kind of dorky up here but got the men in black thing going on up here and now we're holding hands and and that you know on some level you think this is kind of awkward but again it feels really good like your hand feels really nice right it's not sweating yet it might start sweating it's really lovely because that you have a softness to the palm that's like kind of hugging on the collar yes what are you doing after this yeah I'm free my wife left this morning Julie just gave permissions like yeah I feel like you got the Hall Pass we're good you guys are touching somebody next to you and in that touch you're exchanging an amazing amount of information that's invisible and you can't see it and you don't know it yet you don't even know what you're absorbing from that person next to you yet and I'm really glad I'm some touching riches here because he's talked to a lot of really smart people over the last and decade and so I'm going to absorb all kinds of brilliance out of this hand s's closed her eyes for a second so we can more immerse ourselves in that feeling of that person's hand just a little pulse of love and out both hands now just a little pulse now if you get too dramatic about it control yourself mm-hmm little pulse and now do something far more difficult that I don't even know if I know how to do yet which is open up your heart right now and be willing to absorb all the other love you have so many blocks right there and walking around so protected such a well-constructed cubicle around your heart you're afraid you're unlovable so just take it down take down the cubicle walls I don't think anybody's really opened up their heart yet cuz nobody's really exhaling huge right now so let's just try to take a deep breath in let it all the way out just look back to your chest and now turn your attention back to your palms and just gently ask for love I just want some love and let it run up your arms I'm gonna start to fill your chest I'm just taking another deep breath together and sucking all that love and you can't in this moment experience everything that everybody else in this room is experienced all the knowledge they've collected all of the intelligence that they are capable of all of the service they've given to their loved ones it turns out they're all just as good as you are at pouring love out and they're just as bad as you are at taking love in and so the sheer amount of available love in this room is infinite there's so much unabsorbed love in here and I think that's why we are suffering so much as humanity is we've disconnected from the vortex the matrix of love that is literally emanating out of all of us all the time and we can't even figure out how to plug back in you are so loved I want you to go back in time right now to the womb here we are right now we're at some age and we're going to start traveling back swiftly and go through your mind's eye whatever hit age twenty and it's great to be 20 that's such a cool now you're ten you haven't had to go through the fucking fuel pretty shit yet and you're just like still like in that wonderful magical moment of being ten when life's still very simple and like you just want to go ride bikes with your friends remember when you're ten and you catch a perfect Hill on your bike and you're just flying down at this complete freedom and no effort wind whipping by you I remember when you were five digging your first big hole in the ground I don't know why we're all driven to dig holes but we do that all the time and you were a kid digging a hole somewhere on a beach or a backyard and just remember how tiny your hands are when you're five so funny all hands are so damn cute and they're funny almost kind of puffy fat little hands and then you're like two and you're just like so pleased with yourself because you can walk from the coffee table over to the shelf to rip something off there's a bookshelf and you're so pleased with yourself and – and then suddenly you're there's a newborn and you're just blowing your mind over the beauty of the world you just came out of this like kind of glowy warm space that was nothing very distinct to see and you're just in this cacophony of color sound voices you're just taking all that in and a brain that has no idea what it's seen yet but deeper down and that newborn is a very knowing soul and if we back up into the womb now where you're just in embryo not even fully formed yet I think there's still at some point in that transition between single-cell and newborn baby you're animated by this energy field and this energy field has a deep knowingness and it has been in the universe at the beginning of whatever creation was and you're in the womb with this deep knowingness inside yourself and you're the collision of a little bit of DNA from mom and dad that helps give structure to the interaction with an electromagnetic field that will then manifest a personality that can't be coded for in the genes it's easy to feel like it was an amazing parent when you have one child but when you have a second child you so they realize you have nothing to do with this process they're so different it is like so impossible different from that first child and you're like what because you're not actually from your parents I would like you all to dwell on that for a very long moment right now you are not from your parents so stop blaming them they didn't create you are you kidding no they're just lost confused human beings you came from something much bigger got much deeper knowingness and much deeper wisdom to sit in that for a moment you're not from your parents that's wonderful so we have to stop blaming them for their shortcomings or their successes we can we can either give them credit nor nor ridicule for whatever happened in the parenting journey and the dominant emotion that I find underlying most the disease I take care of his abandonment at some point you had a moment where you felt abandoned and it can seem really trivial and it was really trivial like your parents went out on a date and for you woke up from a nap you didn't know they were gonna be gone and they were gone and you felt suddenly terrified and lonely like your parents abandoned you and turns out that the babysitter was just late and they showed up and I hear those little things all the time in fact that's what engendered the first moment of you thought you were abandoned and sometimes it's awful horrific things awful abuses and all kinds of things that made you feel abandoned but I want you to realize in the same way that you are not from your parents there's no way they could have abandoned you nor could they give you any actual companionship on a spiritual level they are no more connected with their soul than anybody else and so they were no more capable of really being present with you they were they're biologically for you but they didn't know how to connect with you at that spiritual level and my big victory of my last decade it was really finding out that when my mom was pretty sick when I had grown up she had just we're epilepsy and it was always having seizures and sizing this caretaking mode early on in my life and oldest child of four kids it's kind of taking care of my siblings while she's having a seizure taking care of her and I remember being a grocery store with her head on my lap and she's having a seizure and people are freaking out around me and just patiently waiting for her stop having a seizure those kinds of experiences I ended up holding sent me that I wasn't being nurtured I wasn't being cared for I was lonely because my mom couldn't be there to take care of me and I found out a few years ago doing some just deep work with myofascial therapist releasing grief and the sense of I wasn't nurtured to find out the embarrassing and humbling an incredible reality that there had been angels all over me in every one of those moments at the soul level nurturing my soul never letting go of me and that changed my whole perception of my story my story had been a kid with a sick mom had to take care of people and that moment I realized I'm a soul that's ancient that's been nurtured at the highest level of vibration since before I came into this body and especially while I've been in this body so give up your story your story is not one of hardship I guarantee it our forefathers generations had some hardship that we have never known but deeper than that there is no hardship on the soul level because the souls move as a sardine would those souls that solely within you as literally as as non empathetic and non empathic as the fish it's just seeking a higher vibration and it's asking you to a higher vibration and so you are an ancient soul wrapped up in this moment you are not abandoned at any moment you have been cared for on a level that defies our understanding our words the word angel is not sufficient these are beings light these are beings of energy that we have fairly no card struck to understand in our human minds and they're all around us and we don't even understand that we don't know why we don't know how to interact with up entirely but life is not the way it looks around you and you're gonna get there faster to the state of being being willing to let go of your cubicle what story have you been telling everybody that you have got to get don't run I want you to rebirth right now and you're in the womb right now and I just want you to come back into this world with completely fresh eyes travel down that birth canal in that dark tunnel and there's light at the end of that tunnel there's total chaos at that another tone for all your perceptive limitations because you're about to step back into the world without any of your previous constructed self-identity and that's gonna feel like chaos you're not gonna be able to make immediate sense of everything because you're gonna keep checking yourself say is that my old story be willing to be completely rebirth and we need to do that every single day because you're so patterned and creating a new story and you're just gonna go build another one and you're gonna fashion a new cubicle and you're gonna be very super pleased with it you think it's all shiny and cool and you'll be just as stuck as you were before and so what will the core of the manifest what are we going to do with our time so that we set in motion electrons that would inform not just our fellow man but the children that would come after us what are the whales get a sense right now can we connect with those fish and whales in the sea right now and say I'm sorry I am so sorry for all the plastic in your belly I am so sorry for our selfish dominance this planet thank you for your grace and your willingness to connect instantaneously with us thank you for welcoming us in a sardine and a buffalo and Wolf Eagle fish egg whatever card you pulled this week I want you go to that space for a moment go to your egg for a moment go to your card and think about that what were you called to become this week have you let go enough of your story that you can become that thing oh I see Zach thank you for that beautiful offering how's everybody feel reborn appreciate you my friend thank you thank you for being here with all of us so gratefully to you so ridiculous that you showed up seven billion people on the planet you guys showed up seven billion this is the cream of the frickin crop right here seven billion rows right now this week to become something bigger than yourself tap into something deeper and I love it that you guys pull this trick on everybody yeah okay guys this vegan thing and we got some good food and we run yeah bullshit you guys are like a freakin wrecking ball of previous lifetimes and I freaking love this place thank you for the sneak attacks thank you for the well-designed trust and that's actually what you've created in your podcasts and we've come to trust you in the language and the information you share with us we've come to trust these layers of Education you guys put out in the world and that trust allowed us to come to this place where we could be in deep relationship without having even known each other before since you're a friend of rich and Julie you're my friend too and that started us off on a really strong point and we've built some really cool friendships that privacy you can hear all the exchanges like there's a lot people for you you're really living in is your keep touching each other you're gonna go back into an environment like at home where everybody thinks they know who you are because you only very carefully tribes rise very to the cubicle of consciousness as I do everybody and I think that we can actually get to a sardine moment without that catastrophic death and disappearance of our species that were cruising towards and so we got about thirty years to figure it out if we don't figure out in 30 years we will see the highest level of suffering ever measured in human history as we collapse to our endpoint and if that's our path let's hold on to this moment too for that is that we need to be non empathic non emotional about the the demise of our species as well and we need to know that at that point we're just one giant fish jumping into the towns of a bigger eagle that we can't see yet and so we don't need to be overly dramatic about the end of our species or this the sixth extinction it's okay it's our path mother earth and saw it coming and she's recovered from from massive extinctions before and life just explodes right back and so we should be in no question of of the good stuff on the other side but if in the next thirty years you guys start really being vulnerable enough to your whole communities and really seeking more hand-holding in your life we're gonna freakin create a new society and I'm very excited to bring more stuff to you guys too for what my tribe is doing back in the States and around the world now we have a whole team of thinkers that are gonna keep bringing stuff to you guys so rich lying I think we're gonna have an opportunity to roll out one of the biggest stories of human history in these next couple months as we we start to tell a story about the rise and fall of Empire and we said we're going to tell a story about what are the patterns of human behavior that need to be destructed because not only have each of us constructed a story our societies and our empires have constructed a story that is keeping us from our fullest capacity to become one and to become one species that would be a quorum and would act at an extremely high intelligence level that's literally never been witnessed before and we will connect to alien species and we will connect all kinds of things in this universe physical and non-physical through an actual quorum event when seven billion people become one and are willing to share everything most of all love and whatever that is and so I'm honored to be among you can't wait for the next chapters to unfold boom right that guy just never disappoints so cool such a blessing to be able to share his powerful message with all you guys here today hope you guys enjoyed it for even more on dr. Bush check the show notes on the episode page at rich WorldCom go to his website Zack Bush MD comm and I would also suggest visiting farmers footprint us where you can watch the first installment of his docu-series and learn more about the farmers footprint mission and should you be so moved contribute to the cause again I want to thank everyone who attended our retreat in Italy for collectively raising 81 thousand dollars for that project you guys are amazing and finally let Zack know how this one landed for you by sharing your thoughts with him directly on twitter at dr. Zack Bush or on instagram at Zack Bush MD if you want to support the work we do here on the podcast just tell your friends about your favorite episode or about the show in general share what you're listening to on social media take a screen grab tag me I like to retweet that stuff or share it on Instagram subscribe to the show on Apple podcast Spotify YouTube Google podcasts wherever you listen to this or watch it leave a review on Apple podcast and you can support our work on patreon at Rich roll com forward slash donate great appreciation to everybody who helped put on this show today Jason camiolo for audio engineering production shownotes interstitial music my stepson tyler Pyatt who handled the audio engineering in italy to record this to capture it blake curtis and margo Lubin there was no video this time but hey Blake's with me today doing audio engineering work so many thanks to you guys nonetheless Jessica Miranda for graphics DK for advertiser relationships Leia murasa bitch for photographs of this episode in Italy and theme music is always by analemma appreciate you guys I love you without you guys I'm nothing I will see you back here next week with a great conversation with my friend the actor Titus Welliver he's one of those guys you see him and you're like that guy this guy's been in everything you like I don't know if I know his name but he's that guy you probably know him from Bosch the TV series on Amazon he's a great dude we had a great conversation you're not gonna want to miss it so stay tuned until then as dr. bush says pain can be a great teacher become comfortable with being uncomfortable peace plants

31 thoughts on “Transcend Your Story: Zach Bush, MD | Rich Roll Podcast

  1. Haven't listened to this one yet but the previous one was one of the best podcasts I've ever heard. Love you Gents!

  2. I could listen to Zach all day! Thank you Rich for bringing me into my life! We need to see his face and expressions though πŸ™‚ It was in front of an audience, why was it there no camera? I would have loved to watch it and listen to it, instead of just listen to it. But it is what it is, can;t complain more, but can I just a little more*.. again, why was it not on film? You are big enough for it now, or maybe not? Rant aside, very good content, keep them coming!

  3. I appreciate more than I can express and I am very grateful for both of you. Excellent inspiration! You may never read my comments of appreciation nor my next comment for a request, so I hope the energy of my words will be felt in all sincerity. My request is please could you think about not using foul language? The β€œF”word was said many times and is such a negative, acid, angry, hateful word that I never enjoy hearing it, not even for trying to shock or get a laugh. It spiritually takes me a few minutes to be a peace again. Please, no one respond with hate messages as I just want these two beautiful men to think about it. Blessings to all.

  4. Quack Deepak Chopra type that makes dodgy, wo wo hippie claims about quantum physics and black holes and areas where he has no intellectual authority and cites amateur pothead scientists. Don't have this guy back on please… These types of fake intellectuals that make unsubstantiated claims about pretty much everything from the multiverse to the squirrels in their backyard like it's peer-reviewed science, are dangerous to people who can't see through their bullshit.

  5. I love how the universe brings me everything right when I feel I need it. I give myself the opportunity to create the space and BOOM! LOVE IT! SO GREAT

  6. Thanks for sharing! Loved this podcast! At the meditation time I went deep. Wow! Great opportunity to renew ourselves.

  7. Us women have acute empathic awareness through the process of giving birth. The overarching power and economic structure resulting in war has been imposed on us precisely due to our vulnerabilities in this state of pregnancy and caregiving for our young. I like to think this is changing but there is a poweeful historical precedent at play. Perhaps the paradigm shift we seek is to leave behind patriarchy and connect with our inherent female energy.

  8. You both are a dream team!!! Love listening to your podcasts, thank you for sharing your thoughts, knowledge & wisdom. It is totally inspiring ..

  9. I am ALL about narrative so this really rang true. I am among other things a free-lance writer and stuff I wrote about Tom Petty's music — don't give a fuck if I come across as slightly obsessed, Petty theft is great but he needs a cheering section because his music helped so many people. Knowing him got me sober. Invite Mike Campbell or Benmont Tench to one of your long drawn-out talk fests. Benmont loves to talk; what is so special or not about Gen X? These guys are the real thing, thank you Tom Stoppard.

  10. Listened to this on Spotify this morning, but had to come here to say:
    …Wow. if I wasn't completely in awe of, and inspired by Zach before, this sealed the deal. I am so grateful to you, (Rich and team) for bringing Zach forward to share his insights, his message. Truly priceless. Big love and hand holds to you all.

  11. I find myself coming back to these talks with Zach over and over. I would love for you guys to keep collaborating in the future he never gets old

  12. Thank you Rich and Zack for yet another wonderful podcast. I was completely overwhelmed by this. This will be listened to again by myself a few times. God Bless. πŸ™πŸ‡¨πŸ‡¦πŸ˜Ž

  13. Welcome back Zack. You guys put on a riveting talk together the other two times. I've listened multiple times. Next time, can we look at government subsidies toward animal ag. Or lack thereof in fruits and veggies. Also, maybe touch on lobbiests, ad gag orders, and crony capitalism in the food industry.
    The only way to get things back to snuff is to get the honesty back in. There will always be a next Roundup or Liberty Link waiting in the wings.

  14. I was so waiting for this one, once you mentioned you've met each other again! Thanks! A bit disappointed it's only audio though. As a non-native English person, I tend to listen/understand better when I see the ongoing conversation. Thanks anyway, Rich and Zach! You guys inspire me. Cheers

  15. Sorry to say this but I purchased his expensive product but did not work at all. Causes severe digestive distress and constipation. In the faqs he says you have to drink a lot of water to counter that. Nothing to do with water and the side effect I experienced is not related to it. I did not get a chance to see what it does. Had the bottle for a year because I could not get myself to trash a $60 purchase just like that. Finally recently I threw it away. Getting sick of all this overwhelming amount of info, products, the stress they cause etc.

  16. As to do with nations going to war looking for self identity, is it the nation or is it individuals that take the nation into war? Thanks for have Zach Bush on again.

  17. Oh my goodness this is priceless – two of my fave people together touching incredible depths.Β 
    Resonating to my core. Deep gratitude!

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